Peter Reynolds

The life and times of Peter Reynolds

The Persecution Of Julian Assange

with 81 comments

Foolish Hero

I disagree with the release of so many confidential diplomatic messages.  I see no benefit from it at all but I will defend, with my life if necessary, the right of Julian Assange and WikiLeaks to publish them.

Those vile and fascist Americans who have called for his assassination are guilty of incitement to murder.  If they set foot on British soil they should be arrested immediately.  They disgrace their great country and its constitution.

Assange is a fool and WikiLeaks is irresponsible but these are questions of degree and judgement.   If there is wrongdoing in the information they have it should be released.  If it is just mischievous exposure of confidential and private correspondence then it is wrong.

I am in great difficulty over the denial of bail.   The charges are clearly preposterous,  incredible and politically motivated.   He surrendered voluntarily to the police.  On balance, particularly given the sureties offered by John Pilger, Jemima Khan and Ken Loach, he should not have been remanded in custody.  He is to apply again and I pray that British justice, so often wanting of late, will rise to the challenge.

Release Julian Assange.  Protect him from the Americans.

Written by Peter Reynolds

December 7, 2010 at 7:30 pm

81 Responses

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  1. Good God, Peter! What have you been smoking?

    You’ll defend with your life? THIS Wiki leaking? These treacherous anti-west, anti-USA, anti-Australia, anti-Britain fools who care not one iota that terrorists and our enemies in states around the world are now able to re-assess their targets, thanks to them and their sources?

    WHAT? You really defend this?

    You DO know where his three would-be “bailers” stand politically, don’t you? Let’s discount Khan, but the other two are well to the left of the Lib Dems or even your party, the Conservatives. They are both anti-the Iraq war and full of the usual bull***t – “Bush/Blair/war criminals.”

    I am absolutely astounded that you support Assange and his friends.

    Why are you so outraged that some Americans may have called for his murder? MANY people call for your murder, and mine and British politicians’ murders. Not to mention the murder of Geert Wilders, another free-speech fan. Do these would-be murderers also outrage you?

    Would you lay down their life for their causes too?

    Freedom and freedom of information aren’t values-free.

    Support THEIR values, and you oppose the west’s. It’s that simple to me.

    I’m reminded of the much criticised Bush quote, “you’re either with us or you’re with the terrorists”. Though in this case it’s wider than just any transient temporary terrorists. It’s also the Iranians, the Russians – etc

    I suppose a few things that the Wikileaks have shown us is that it is NOT only the wicked west which has worries about Iran.

    And of course, with the passing of time, that Bush ‘Arc of Evil’ seems to be visible again, though hardly anyone in our extremely LEFT-LEANING press has noticed.

    Funny that.

    So don’t lay down your life for Assange and his crowd. I mean, think of me. Who would I be able to chat with online, if you did?


    December 7, 2010 at 8:05 pm

  2. I think, as I said, that Assange is a fool but yes, the principle of protecting his right to publish this information (that America so incompetently lost) is absolute.

    Peter Reynolds

    December 7, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    • “that America so incompetently lost”?

      Peter, FGS! What’s this America-hating from you. It’s America’s fault that he FOUND the informtion through an informer, is it?

      The Americans are freer with information than we are, true. They had FOI before Blair brought it in here. (Blair says it was the worst thing he ever did, btw, as mainly journos use and abuse it to descredit government).

      But the Americans freed information even further after 9/ll when they were stung by accusations that some departments knew about the possibility of terror attacks, and others didn’t.

      Do you think they were WRONG to make information more widely available?

      With your position, Peter, where you seem to think they were wrong to be so open and trusting, it’s clear America can NEVER win.

      Assange has NO right to put democratically-elected governments’ secret and confidential information online. NO RIGHT. Did we elect him? Appoint him as our Watchdog? Who does he think he is? GOD?

      I hope he rots in jail. Though with big-mouth know-all wallies like his Guardianisto lawyer and John Pilger on his side, who knows!?

      This is certainly the best country in the world to get away with anything, if you know how to work the system, as so many foreigners do.

      Btw, why are we talking about Wikileaks? His arrest was for sex charges, don’t you know?!


      December 7, 2010 at 9:05 pm

      • Alright, so let’s you and I disagree over the leaks but please, don’t insult either of us by pretending that the sex charges are in any way valid. Have you read the background? They are preposterous sophistry, clearly orchestrated by the Americans.

        On the real issue, Assange did not steal the information. It was leaked to him. He is a journalist. The role is no different even if the technology has changed. The US constitution proects his rights.

        Yes, you know that I am a huge admirer of America. When it conforms to its constitution it ALWAYS wins. Those disgusting, prehistoric pondlife cowboys who abuse the freedom they are given and call for Assange to be assassinated are traitors to their own great country.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 7, 2010 at 9:48 pm

      • I put in the question and exclamation marks on purpose, Peter, rather than a silly smiley thingy. Thought you might have noticed.

        Look, if we have to use tricks to stop anarchistic people like him betraying ALL OF US to our enemies, bring out the tricks bag.

        But anyway, how do YOU know that these are trumped up charges? They were first mentioned weeks ago. Not finalised yet, it seems. Perhaps he’ll be found not guilty.

        Btw, why do people who don’t approve of something or someone or of whom or with which they disagree insist that they ‘KNOW’? I’m aways having this battle with the WE ALL KNOWERS on Tony Blair.

        You know nothing more than I do about the sex charges.

        “Clearly orchestrated by the Americans”, eh? A honeytrap? Good idea.

        But if he is protected by the US constitution don’t get so het up about it all, Peter. But if so (and I think you are very wrong about this assumption) it’ll open the door to more treacherous behaviour like this unless there’s a change of heart from many people as to whose side our government is/are on.

        You are repeating the same stuff as John Whatsisname – the anti-Iraq war journo who wrote a book about Blair’s Wars. Disappointed Labourite, of course. Can’t think of his name. Insignificant anti-type. Runs something self-important to do with Freedom of Speech/the Press. The same sort of Freedom of Speech type group that were up in arms (NOT) when Geert Wilders was denied entry into our free-speech loving country and was even tried in court in order to punish him for saying what he thought about Islam in his own country and Europe.

        You’d think the web was full of assassination calls against Assange to hear you and that guy whose name I can’t recall. Personally I haven’t seen any, though I am told they have been made.

        Well, like Tony Blair does with the same incessant calls, he’ll have to cope, won’t he. That’s politics for you. If you want to play with the big boys …

        Funny how few people complain when Blair gets those threats. And he does. And he has had for the best part of a decade.

        It’s a week and already they’re blubbering about poor Julian.

        All the nasty Americans’ faults, they scream. Don’t they Peter. Titchy tu!


        December 8, 2010 at 2:27 am

      • Well me ol’ mate, despite your dozens of comments here, Akismet decided this was spam.

        I wouldn’t go that far but it’s definitely not prime beef. Smothered with ketchup and Tabasco I might just be able to get it down but I couldn’t guarantee it would stay there. The vomit reflex would probably be far too strong.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 1:06 pm

      • Sorry, Peter. It said on my system the comment hadn’t gone. Then the computer froze and I had to switch it off. I thought this comment was lost.

        You know I cannot believe the level of stupidity of some of your commenters. If I didn’t know better I’d think I was at Guido’s!

        America hating is alive and well and living at Peter’s place.

        I would take time if I had time to respond to some of these unfortunates. But right now I have more important things to be getting on with. Trying to keep Blair’s neck out of the noose.

        Now his is REAL “persecution”! And REALLY undeserved.


        December 8, 2010 at 7:28 pm

      • Yeah but you can’t be surprised surely?

        What was the WikiLeak on the inquiry? Was it that US “interests” would be “borne in mind” or something?

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 9:14 pm

      • Repying to this, Peter. system didn’t allow me a Reply under this:

        You said:

        ‘Yeah but you can’t be surprised surely?

        What was the WikiLeak on the inquiry? Was it that US “interests” would be “borne in mind” or something?’

        I’m not surprised at his recall, but still annoyed. I should bloody-well HOPE the US’s interests would be borne in mind. They are/were our allies in WAR. But not as we know it, and not as many of us understand it. You included, it seems, Peter.


        December 8, 2010 at 10:55 pm

      • Well obviously our allies’ interests should be borne in mind. I agree. Let’s be open about it.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 11:46 pm

      • Ah yes, those sex charges – not ‘rape’ as has been frequently reported, but that peculiarly Swedish crime ‘sex by surprise’, which apparently involves consensual sex without the use of a condom.

        Many women who are victims of sexual assault do not report the matter to the police (for a variety of reasons) and of those who do, some may not report the incident until much time has elapsed since the assault.

        Very few, I would imagine, wine and dine their sex attacker, lend them money, throw a party for them, brag about their conquest online and then report them to the police a week later – coincidentally after discovering he was sleeping with another woman that same weekend. Going to the police then seems suspiciously like an act of revenge to punish Assange for his infidelity ?

        No doubt Assange’s legal team will be citing the Swedish prosecutor’s initial decision to dismiss the allegations ‘as without foundation’ as evidence of the flimsy nature of the charges against him.

        They will also no doubt draw attention to one of his accuser’s suggested links to the CIA to suggest some nefarious motive behind these accusations


        December 7, 2010 at 10:00 pm

      • Thank you Duncan An elegant recital of the details.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 7, 2010 at 10:59 pm

      • I’m afraid Duncan A’s elegance has been done down by further revelations about the sex charges that you guys semm to know so much about. How do you know about these women, anyway? Was it a love trio/quartet? Why didn’t you ring me!?


        December 8, 2010 at 10:57 pm

      • So I’m told, you are just too well endowed for these sweet Swedish ladies

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 11:38 pm

      • America will never win for sure. Their insistence that the world should live their way is their undoing. I suspect that they are the most disliked power on the earth. Their people believe that their crusades are puritan whilst the reality of their politicians motivation is money and power.
        Their arrogance and ignorance astound me. I heard one politician saying he should be tried for treason.. surely he’d have to be American for that charge to stick or is it just a matter of time until US aircraft carriers hovers off the coast of Aus to bring peace and stability to the region ?!
        They murder Mexicans on their own boarder for sport and as for the continuing trauma as a result of hurricane Katrina…. SHAME ON YOU USA ..Get your own house straight before trying to ‘save’ the rest of us.

        Sorry… thought of US foreign .. and blacked out


        December 8, 2010 at 2:47 pm

      • Oh my dear Nicky-poo, you have it backwards; it is the Americans on the borders who have to keep out of range of the Mexican drug dealers and slave traders.
        In FACT, there are signs along the border on OUR side of the border, warning us to keep out of certain areas for our own safety. As for Katrina, there were mistakes made by the local government’s reaction and by the President, who admitted he should have gone in sooner. The reality is, lives could have been saved if the citizens had only listened to the warnings to GET OUT. Americans can be stubborn that way. Why is it that when America makes a mistake, the whole world says SHAME ON YOU, while they haven’t bothered to clean up their own backyards? Your country has never made such mistakes, ha?

        little ole American

        December 8, 2010 at 5:10 pm

      • A very typical and convenient response ‘little ole’. Not too long ago I spent some time with a Texan. His view(and indeed that of his friends) is shooting illegals is a sport. Be it smugglers, slavers or just some poor bastards trying to escape poverty.. You cannot tell by looking down the barrel of a gun! Shoot and don’t even bother to ask…..
        Katrina is an ongoing nightmare. It wasn’t pointed out because that retard Bush failed to go and take a look. Chances are he wouldn’t have understood what he was seeing if he did!
        The reason why people keep telling you to tidy your own yard first is because you guys have a limited understanding of all thing foreign yet you insist that you know best and all can be sorted with a little or indeed a lot of shock and so called awe.
        America is a declining super power..Thank the lord as you guys would say. Too many opinions and too little understanding of how far older cultures actually work.
        You guy haven’t got it right..massive poverty..racism..violence. Shame on you sticks buddy. Do you think that if lots of people keep saying could be right?


        December 8, 2010 at 6:36 pm

      • Were you hanging out with an Hispanic Texas citizen?
        The Hispanic LEGAL immigrants are just as upset about illegals coming across as anyone else is. BTW, what were you doing hanging out with such Texans, anyway? An Hispanic Border Patrol agent was imprisoned for shooting an illegal (drug smuggler) in the behind, so don’t tell me that people are shooting illegals for sport down there. I have friends in Texas, too.
        Have you noticed we have a Black President? Since Europe is so much older than we are, I have to wonder why that has not yet happened “over there”? I must have a “limited” understanding of that.

        little ole American

        December 8, 2010 at 8:17 pm

      • I have great sympathy for Nick”s view of America and some of its attitudes.

        I’m also hugely cynical about the US-created carnage on the Mexico border because of an inane federal drug policy that is itself the root of the problem.

        I have massive admiration for the principles of the US constitution and the achievements of its people. I cite the enlightened state drug policies that permit medical marijuana and prove that it is the land of the free. Also, I am still in awe at the election of Obama, even if the shine has faded.

        America is a great country. Sometimes it is arrogant and clumsy.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 9:25 pm

      • If only we Brits hadn’t made so many mistakes, little ole. NOT forgetting that contraceptive pill might have raised the general IQ level around this joint. Little ole excepted, of course. And Peter. He’s having a moment of madness.


        December 8, 2010 at 11:01 pm

      • You patronising Big Mac guzzler, you.

        Listen, I tell my best mate when he’s a prat (ktbfpm frequently, by the way) and he appreciates my friendly guidance.

        He does the same for me.


        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 11:49 pm

  3. The Persecution Of Julian Assange « Peter Reynolds…

    Here at World Spinner we are debating the same thing……

    World Spinner

    December 7, 2010 at 9:18 pm

  4. This whole farce about Assange is disgusting and reminds me of primitive and medieval justice. That simple. The West should be ashamed of the way it is dealing with him. Tell me what is the difference now between Western justice and other justice systems such as China or Iran that the West is so smug to condemn when it fits its purpose. I have lost faith in freedom of speech and all the puerile and juvenile thinking that goes with it. There is no such thing Period. Now I’ll shut up before I end up in jail or targeted by the West’s intelligence agencies. All Assange did was to show that the emperor has no clothes. A bunch of idiots governing us behind our backs to their advantage. Heard of sheeple ?


    December 8, 2010 at 7:57 am

    • I would prefer that we had the WikiLeaks rather than not but I think there is a lot that is irresponsible and destructive about them.

      Assange is a journalist and is entitled to protection but he needs to start exercising some judgement, discrimination and common sense.

      It’s what used to be called the editor’s job.

      Peter Reynolds

      December 8, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    • Lou, tell me something – do you trust this guy more than you trust democratically elected leaders? A simple question. Yes or no?


      December 8, 2010 at 11:03 pm

  5. Question: When is it right for a rape charge to be dismissed out of hand?

    Answer: When a rape charge is made against a darling of the libertarian left (or right).


    December 8, 2010 at 12:38 pm

    • Absolutely! Right on, Stan. Or should I say “Left on”? Amazing that the firm Conservative, me ol’ mate Peter, allows his site to be polluted by such as these.


      December 8, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    • Answer: Never

      Peter Reynolds

      December 8, 2010 at 9:31 pm

      • So what’s the persecution thing about then?


        December 9, 2010 at 12:04 am

  6. How DO you find these “Amuricans” who call for Assange
    to be assassinated? Here I am, in a population of about 360 million people and I cannot find a single person who is calling for that sort of nonsense.
    When Geert Wilder’s freedom of speech was attacked in Britain, all I could think of was, SHAME ON YOU BRITAIN! I’ve been reading the reports on the weather conditions in Britain; people dying from exposure to the cold and because putting snow chains on your tires is illegal. What kind of nonsense is that? Shame on you! I don’t know if Assange is a traitor or not. I do know two things; one of his partners in crime (little ole weak-kneed Bradley) has some mental problems and the other thing that really bothers me, is his attorney (Mark Stephens) does pro-bono work for the “Open Society”; you know, that organization that is owned and operated by George Soros (the guy who broke the bank of England)? There is no doubt Assange is an American-hater, just like some of the posters here. Why don’t we all just calm down and see what happens? I can guarantee you, Assange will be given his “Due Process” here in the states (if he ever gets here). If he was being tried by any other country, I would be justifiably worried. I can’t help but think of the words to the song about Charlie Brown; “why is everybody always pickin’ on me?”

    little ole American

    December 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    • Geert Wilder…great example… lets see:

      Geert Wilder : preacher of hate and fear.

      Assange : truth teller. Albeit somewhat misguided but, truth teller all the same.

      Thanks so much…great comparison!

      I hope for his sake that he never gets to the states if your judicial system follows your line of thought.


      December 8, 2010 at 7:01 pm

      • Er, no, Nick. Wilders tells the TRUTH on Islam AS HE SEES IT in his country.

        Assange tells other people’s private thoughts on all sorts of confidential things, and you lot think he’s the bee’s knees!

        Free speech for all, you NOW yell! But only if it agrees with the haters of the west, the haters of capitalism and, er, the haters of real FREE SPEECH.

        There is no values-free right to free speech.

        Sort out your values before you junk the west. At least then we will know where you’re coming from.


        December 8, 2010 at 7:36 pm

      • I disagree. Wilder spouts his OPINION and attempts to gain ‘buy in’ from others. His opinion is only that, an opinion, its not based on fact… a view generated as a result of his own fear and loathing of all things different for which he blames all wrongs in his home.
        Assange, whilst misguided, is simply passing on info penned by the hand of others. Real truths as recorded by the hands of arrogant fools.
        I’m certainly not anti west but, this said make no pretence of the wests perfection. Nor for that matter am I a lover of radicals of any kind be they Islamic or bible belt hicks from the go ole U.S of A. We’d all be better off without them all.

        I think there is a great difference.
        I value your opinion though x


        December 8, 2010 at 7:48 pm

      • So you value everyone’s opinion, Nick. Must be a Lib Dem then. Except that once in power, things are different. Reality sets in.

        As for Wilders – he wouldn’t have the support he has if there wasn’t good reason for that support. There are plenty of reasons. You need to google such as Netherlands/Islamists/Wilders etc.

        No-one is making this up, you know. People who support Geert Wilders, like people who support Tony Blair, aren’t mad right-wing anti-Muslim extremists.


        December 8, 2010 at 8:14 pm

      • I do value opinion. Certainly not LD though very dare you suggest such a thing sir. My jumper was not knitted for me. I purchased it knowing full well it was made in a sweat shop by a one handed six year old!?

        I have an open mind to all…I’d hope so anyway. I approached Wilder with the same open mind. Initially, concerned he was not granted audience or indeed entry.. Upon examination however its clear the guys simply a bigot. As for his followers.. its easy to gain a common hate if times require. Look back through history, won’t take too long to find a few examples.

        I find it hard to believe that you can compare the two in this context.
        Assange has simply told people what is written by arshole state servants behind their ever so grubby closed doors. Wilder tars a religion..over a billion individuals?? No comparison.


        December 8, 2010 at 8:30 pm

      • Listen ktbfpm, don’t start trying to let the LibDems off the hook by blaming “reality”.

        There can be no doubt on this at all. They signed a commitment which they have now, outrageously, reneged on. As it’s unambiguous, in writing and indefensible, I see no reason at all why the law shouldn’t be invoked to have them removed from office.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 9:37 pm

      • To paraphrase what Peter said, “I would defend to the death, the right of free speech to Geert Wilders”.
        We free speech to Ahmadinejad. If that guy isn’t a guy that openly preaches death to you and me, I don’t know who is. Wilders doesn’t do that. He simply states the obvious; we have a problem with Islamists. Correct me if I am wrong Nick but, are there areas of London that you are not allowed go into? Londinstan???

        little ole American

        December 8, 2010 at 8:28 pm

      • Wilder does have a right to speak. No question. But, surely he can’t be compared to Assange. Couldn’t be further from each other if they tried. We stop radical Islamists spouting their hate fuelled crap so why not Wilder as his motive is to insight hate as well? Same rules for all haters.

        As for Londistan as you call it…sorry mate, doesn’t exist. There aren’t any off limits areas in London. I lived there for a good 20 years departing only last year. I’m British anglo and the worst scrapes I ever got in were with white trash…the most unpredictable of all scum I’ve found.

        All these pricks fearing and shouting about Islam and Islamic law only give credence to the argument. It will simply not happen here. If it was even thought plausible I think you’d see what we’re really all about.


        December 8, 2010 at 8:45 pm

      • Good British common sense.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    • I had a dig around for this and there was one guy- a CANADIAN – NOT an American – who said this. Next day he retracted it and said it was meant in a light-hearted way.

      On Dec. 6, 2010, the Calgary Police Department issued a statement advising the media they are investigating University of Calgary Professor Tom Flanagan.

      On Nov. 29, 2010, a day after a large WikiLeaks dump, Flanagan was a guest on the CBC’s Power and Politics show. In a discussion with host Evan Solomon, Flanagan said that he thought WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, “should be assassinated, actually. I think Obama should put out a contract and many use a drone or something.”

      Flanagan later apologized for his remarks and said he was trying to make a joke.

      Are you guys jumping up and down at radical Islamists who say all non-Muslims must covert or die? Such as our very own Anjem Choudary? The idiot that Channel 4 – THE PRIZE IDIOTS – have given his own TV spot?

      No? Thought not. Your racism is showing. You insult ALL Muslims by pretending that somehow good behaviour is not expected from them.

      Ever thought of it that way?


      December 8, 2010 at 11:10 pm

      • Who said we don’t expect ‘good behaviour’ for Muslims. Muslims are just people both good and bad. I don’t understand your point?


        December 9, 2010 at 1:01 pm

  7. Julian Assange is a fool, but only for not choosing his battles wisely. He knew that once he leaked confidential documents the clock was ticking until the hicks across the Atlantic were waving their pitchforks, yet he blew his chips on a weak hand.

    If it were me, I would wait until I had material which didn’t just embarrass, it would need to show outright criminal wrongdoing, something our own government and indeed our overweight cousins in the new world have in abundant supply. That and arrogance also, as apparently it is a crime worthy of being “hunted down” (Palin’s words not mine) to merely embarrass the f#cks.


    December 8, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    • @ Ed – Ref:

      “I would wait until I had material which didn’t just embarrass, it would need to show outright criminal wrongdoing, something our own government and indeed our overweight cousins in the new world have in abundant supply.”

      “… outright criminal wrondgoing”? Unlike the governments of our enemies? The sweethearts.


      December 8, 2010 at 7:38 pm

      • Telling people what they already know isn’t journalism. There’s nothing in this petty chatter that is particularly surprising.


        December 9, 2010 at 11:22 am

  8. I do value opinion. Certainly not LD though very dare you suggest such a thing sir. My jumper was not knitted for me. I purchased it knowing full well it was made in a sweat shop by a one handed six year old!?

    I have an open mind to all…I’d hope so anyway. I approached Wilder with the same open mind. Initially, concerned he was not granted audience or indeed entry.. Upon examination however its clear the guys simply a bigot. As for his followers.. its easy to gain a common hate if times require. Look back through history, won’t take too long to find a few examples.

    I find it hard to believe that you can compare the two in this context.
    Assange has simply told people what is written by arshole state servants behind their ever so grubby closed doors. Wilder tars a religion..over a billion individuals?? No comparison.


    December 8, 2010 at 8:31 pm

  9. Were you hanging out with an Hispanic Texas citizen?

    No they are doctors.

    I can’t believe your playing the ‘but we’ve got a black president’ card. Mugabe is black if I recall.. What has that got to do with anything? The fact that you think its relevant is very amusing.

    Lets try some more examples:

    We’re the largest pollutors in the world but its OK our presidents a black man….

    Anyone buying this…

    We all like reggie! Our president is a black man.

    Uh, just as relevant


    December 8, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    • Go Nick!

      I like your assessment of Wilders. I started in the same place and am on the same track but I haven’t quite reached as far as you.

      I think we should be careful of lionising Assange though. It would be easy to judge him too kindly because of the injustice that he is suffering. That does not make him right.

      Peter Reynolds

      December 8, 2010 at 9:12 pm

      • Thanks Peter!

        Assange is no hero rather, a misguided idealist.

        Stupidity or indeed a foolish social innocence doesn’t warrant him being hunted down though. Its not like he’s made it up. I really don’t see why the yanks are so upset. Its not like we think they are o so pure anyway.


        December 8, 2010 at 9:24 pm

      • Peter, if you are on the same track as Nick re Wilders, you and I are going to stop getting p****d together down the pub, as it were.

        You told me some time ago that I’d helped you see the light on this. Didn’t realise your mind was so maleable, me ol chum.

        Watch your drinking buddies!

        This Islamism in Europe has an interesting video here on ‘FREE SPEECH’:

        Are you guys happy with the Organisation of the Islamic Conference? It is now almost overuling the UN with its calls for preventing the criticism of religion, sorry, Islam?


        December 8, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    • Why? Nothing makes me angrier than this “racist” accusation. You bring up Mugabe when I was talking about Old Europe. How many Members of your Parliament are Black? The United States has dealt with the ugliness of racism. We fought a long, hard, blood-spewn road to get to this melting pot we have become today. We work together, we play together, we fight together, we marry each other, and we worship together.

      little ole American

      December 8, 2010 at 9:59 pm

      • 100% right and due all the credit for that. I’m with you absolutely li’l ol’!

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 10:15 pm

      • First things first.
        You sighted Obama as black loading the statement with good. Mugabe is black and his name alone is a statement of evil. Hence the mention. The fact that you mention he’s black is flawed. It doesn’t matter what colour he is. The fact that you mention he’s black suggests that your acutely aware of this fact.
        Secondly, Old such thing. Europe has been considered a continent of sorts but has only recently joined together politically. More like new than old.
        Thirdly, Great Britain is not part of Europe…..
        Should I go on?
        White America looks down on latin and black americans though I respect the sentiment that they don’t.
        I could be wrong .. but .. i think i’m right.


        December 8, 2010 at 10:17 pm

      • Er… sorry, Nick. Great Britain IS part of Europe. What planet are you on?

        I haven’t read all the way back to check but since this is the modus operandi of so many who DON’T rate America and the west in general – questioning Islam = racist (utter bilge, but par for the course) I think you’ll probably find that it was your thinking, or mindset or fellow-travellers who referred to colour first.

        As for not expecting people to notice Mugabe is black? I do NOT believe anyone who says this sort of over-ripe pc stuff. Of course most people notice people of a different race. They’d be lacking in perception or vision if they didn’t. Noticing doesn’t mean discriminating or hating.

        Unless you’re a racist like Mugabe, that is. He is the idiot who said Blair should keep his “pink nose” out of Zimbabwe’s business.


        December 8, 2010 at 10:46 pm

      • Btw, Nick, and sorry tobe pedantic, little ole “cited” Obama. No-one has sighted him since he had a punch in the mouth at basketball, except when he had a quiet volte-face on bossing the Israelis around the other day.


        December 9, 2010 at 12:07 am

      • Ok, so we are in Europe, I admit it. I hid it lower in the text hoping it would get me my next response. Apologies for such a immature attempt..did make me laugh though. Forget Mugabe, it was mentioned as lil lo loaded we have a black pres with good so, I gave him an example of bad. Your right on all the PC front. BTW he mentioned colour first not that it really matters. I wouldn’t normally react to such however, in the context of the discussion he irritated me with a weak and irrelevant statement.
        You are perfectly right, I’d noticed too that Obama appears not to have an opinion regarding Assange. It appears our second coming (praise be to the lord)does not wish to tarnish his image on such a paltry subject.


        December 9, 2010 at 9:21 am

  10. So, here’s the latest from the AP (three minutes ago)
    Will Assange and the pro-Wiki hackers, “unwittingly”
    provide the government the justification they’ve been looking for, to “police” or even shut down the internet? Hmmm. Sounds like Iran or China.

    little ole American

    December 8, 2010 at 9:38 pm

  11. I’d just like to say Peter, I’m in no way a hater of America or its citizens. My father moved to the states some 20 odd years ago. I’ve discussed the US overseas with and he, as a once cynical Brit, believes its simply that they have a real can do attitude.. I think the unfortunate bit comes when they forget to ask each other..does anyone know how to? Instead they just steam in.


    December 8, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    • I agree with you Nick. I said clumsy didn’t I?

      I’m afraid their “friendly fire” record (topped up again only yesterday) speaks volumes about the negative aspect of their collective personality.

      Peter Reynolds

      December 8, 2010 at 9:46 pm

      • Their “collective personality”?!?!?

        Oh, FGS, Peter. There are nearly as many mad anti-Bush people in the states are there are here. Probably more. There is NO collective personality. There’s only one of you and one of me. And as my father used to say to me, “thank God!”


        December 8, 2010 at 10:48 pm

      • D’ya know, the minute I pressed the go button I knew I’d suffer for that.

        “mad anti-Bush”?

        That’s an oxymoron or, at least, a malapropism.

        Peter Reynolds

        December 8, 2010 at 11:43 pm

      • You agree with Nick? Wasn’t that Dave and Gordon’s election slogan? And you know what happened to them! One disappointed you and the other did what most non-Tories expected. Let in the Tories.

        And now Nick agrees with Dave.


        December 9, 2010 at 12:01 am

    • After 9/11 I for one was surprised how slow the Americans were to “steam in”.


      December 9, 2010 at 12:09 am

      • We keep agreeing..this should stop. I know that on the day of 911 I watched TV late into the night with tears streaming. I had an un-godly fear of who would be brought to account for this shocking display of hatred against America.. They didn’t steam in however, they did then attack Iraq and what old Saddam had to do with it all, god only knows.
        I would say of the American media that they are utter bullshit pushers. I was in the U.S on the first anniversary of 911. The media spent the entire day drawing comparisons between 911 and Saddam. There were articles detailing how he liked to watch torture vids prior to sex and this sort of tripe continued all day. I spent much that day very shocked thinking ‘ you can’t say that or WTF has this got to do with 911.
        I can still feel the shock to this day. I was and remain utterly astonished that the American people stand for it.


        December 9, 2010 at 1:52 pm

  12. Not at all.

    Yes, American ‘friendly fire’ is not new or so I’ve heard tell of WWII. Like horses with blinkers they be.


    December 8, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    • In war there is, unfortunately, ALWAYS “friendly fire”. Even we Brits have been known to succumb to it. When we have the guts to actually try to HELP anyone in this wicked world. It comes with the territory.


      December 9, 2010 at 12:03 am

      • As may be however, not with the reliable regularity of US troops


        December 9, 2010 at 9:05 am

      • I set my MS word to US English yesterday. Went to save a document, but instead it blew it up!

        Completely irrelevant, but since when did that stop anyone


        December 9, 2010 at 11:25 am

      • @Nick,

        What’s this about? The WikiHackers or something? If it’s about my earlier little issue with the pooter it was sent anyway. And I actually said this:

        “Sorry, Peter. It said on my system the comment hadn’t gone. Then the computer froze and I had to switch it off. I thought this comment was lost.”

        So it didn’t stop me.

        What are you on about? What’s irrelevant?


        December 9, 2010 at 12:42 pm

      • Say what?


        December 9, 2010 at 12:48 pm

      • Apologies, Nick. It was Ed who said the above.

        Let’s forget it. When it comes to leadership and understanding politics Eds and Nicks have a way to go, it seems.


        December 9, 2010 at 12:54 pm

  13. Looks like national stereotyping is OK for you guys but not religious stereotyping.

    There’s obviously a logical inconsistency here which can only be explained by a gut anti-Americanism, whichever way you dress it up.

    Shame on YOU!


    December 9, 2010 at 12:01 am

  14. I don;t know if Peter and Nick relaise it but racial “fascism” is alive and well and living at the Guardian. Only, just as their opinion on Blair is wrong-headed and back-to-front, their fascism attacks are pointed in the wrong direction.

    They need to point to their own little selves.

    This is typical of their ranters:


    December 9, 2010 at 12:26 am

    • Lets be honest here, racism and fascism of all colours and ideals exist in every walk of life. Its the nature of humans. Sad as it is I believe, its hard wired in us and our ability to reason offers us the only opportunity to see beyond what is in a way a natural reaction. It doesn’t matter where we live on a map. We have the north south divide.. Scottish have a tendency to dislike the English and so on. Of course history plays a large part in this but, its so easy to dislike whatever your associated group dislikes. I myself have to check myself on occasion to try to overcome this natural reaction. It horrifies me! The typical reaction I use as an example is… I’m white British. I have a tiny little daughter. One day she’ll bring home the love of her life and tell me they are to be married. This chap could be black or any other colour under the sun. Would it be harder for me to accept this stranger if he has a different colour skin? Certainly, my history says it would not matter.. I’ve had a few girlfriends of a variety of different colours. I leave you to draw your own conclusions. If you feel you have never displayed a raciest or religious dislike, even to yourself, then I believe your kidding only yourself. BTW, is she does bring home a guy of differing origins ..good on her as long as she’s happy and he is kind there is no problem. Its that split second initial reaction that tells us our inner ‘truth’ for want of a better explanation. Humans aren’t alone in this of course we see it in the animal world too of course.


      December 9, 2010 at 12:44 pm

      • I agree with you completely on this, Nick. If I didn’t notice the “colour” of one of my kids’ friends, there’d be something wrong with my eyesight.

        Having said that I do recall meeting people at times and afterwards trying to recall whether they were Asian or African. I don’t actually pay that much attention.

        People are kidding themselves if they ‘honestly’ insist they don’t notice if someone is of a different racial background. Noticing is natural. Being biased because of racial difference is the issue.


        December 9, 2010 at 1:02 pm

      • Couldn’t agree more. This natural reaction spirals on and on and as such is terribly counter productive.
        A simple statement of the most innocent nature said, when talking to one of another colour, can be misunderstood, his/her reaction then distorted and off it goes.
        In days gone by I’ve had play to these attitudes .. example: I had two great sales people working for me.. Both very intelligent and fun to be around. They even both smoked. Would they be friends and did I have to split them up.. Oh YES. One was Muslim Pakistani the other a London born Jew. I socialised with both separately and loved them both.. great alike in so many ways. Just leaves me sad..


        December 9, 2010 at 1:14 pm

  15. Glad that you’re implicitly admitting to being biased against Americans, Nick, at least when they do something that is in conflict with your beliefs.

    We can now see where you’ve been coming from re your other comments on this thread.


    December 9, 2010 at 1:18 pm

  16. Hi Stan! I honestly don’t think I have a biased view of the Americans rather, they simply give us more fuel and lack the where with all to stand up and say we were wrong.
    I think maybe that the British by our very nature make mistakes however, as part of our national personality are quicker maybe to hold our hands up and say we were/are wrong. There is so much to admire about the Americans and i feel that possibly our reaction to them doesn’t always fit the profile of inherent racism I suggested earlier? This is only because they appear so like us.. Language and other than Obama of course, a predominantly white power base. Much like our view of Australia I suspect. I’ll say it again.. I don’t hate Americans at all. I’ve got children and to me its much more like ” Oh, god, what HAVE you done now” much like my day to day life with my little ones.


    December 9, 2010 at 1:29 pm

  17. There you go again, Nick, with that patronising last remark.

    I suppose you can’t help it because of your obvious susceptibility to anti-American group-think but please do not lay claim to any kind of moral superiority.


    December 9, 2010 at 8:23 pm

  18. Anti-American group-think? This is a new term to me. Is this ‘Official’ terminology. Are you saying I I I may have been brainwashed??

    Oh my god..

    And to top it all I’m patronising 😦

    Now, don’t be such a silly little fella.


    December 9, 2010 at 10:20 pm

  19. Hear, hear.


    April 27, 2011 at 3:06 am

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